I saw this in Yahoo. A friend also said his son put guild leadership on his resume. Maybe there is something beneficial about this game!
Think you need expensive MBAs to rise to the top of one of the world's biggest businesses? Don't tell Starbucks CIO Stephen Gillett.
The gateway to success can take many forms.
Gillett does actually have an MBA (from San Francisco State, as it happens), but according to a report in Forbes, one expert credits Gillett's time as a guild leader in leading massively-multiplayer online game World of Warcraft for his "meteoric rise."
According to Gillett's former boss John Hagel III, speaking at a leadership conference, successful guild leaders need "a high degree of influence...you have to be able to influence and persuade people--not order them to do things. Ordering people in most of these guilds doesn't get you far."
Aside from their leadership skills, Warcraft enthusiasts, Hagel told Forbes, "conduct extensive after-action reviews of their performances as well as that of the leader." They'll also "customize their own game interfaces to offer statistics and rate performance in areas they consider critical to their strategy" -- all key skills for any management professional, as our friendly office MBA tells us.
How strongly does Gillett believe in the ties between Warcraft and business? Strong enough to warrant a blog dedicated to the subject, run by the CIO himself. And it doesn't take long to see how running a guild and running a business are, in some ways, one and the same.
"What makes a community successful, makes a guild successful," Gillett writes. "If a guildie loyalty resides in any one individual in the guild, then you have future stress fractures waiting to happen. The goal is to have the loyalty reside with the guild and not specifically to any one person in it." Amen to that.
So there you have it, kids: next time your parents say you're playing too many games, tell them you're not blowing off your homework, you're honing your management skills. Good luck with that.
Posts: 1138 Location: The Freakin' Interwebs. Joined: 12.09.07
I've been reading this guy's blog, and geez, he puts a lot of thought into running a guild. I wish we had more people like him and fewer bloodthirsty, power mad tyrants.
How many mystery writers does it take to screw in a light bulb?
Two. One to screw it almost all the way in, and the other to give it a surprising twist at the end.
I gotta say, it's still something I would never put on a resume. Best case scenario? The person doing the hiring/interview plays, and maybe has some idea of how leading a guild could contribute to leadership skills. Worst case scenario? I think it would come across as irrelevant and unprofessional. Sure, lots of people play WoW, but even more people only know of it as a game that millions of people throw lots of time, money, and energy towards and not as something that has anything remotely to do with leadership, organization, or professionalism.
Posts: 1138 Location: The Freakin' Interwebs. Joined: 12.09.07
It probably depends on the job and what else you have to put on your resume. I still put that I ran an online game for eight years on some of my resumes, but I guess that's a bit different. Still, I don't think he ever actually says this is something he puts on his resume, just something that helped him develop a lot of the skills that he uses in his job.
Reading his blog, I don't think most guild leaders do their WoW-jobs the way he does. It seems like he's just naturally disposed toward leading, and being the leader of a guild gave him an opportunity to practice his skills. It's like someone who wants to design or develop games making Warcraft 3 mods, or D&D mods, or whatever. Nobody's likely to play your mod and go, "zomg we has 2 hier thees dood", but it's a great way to develop your abilities and get some practical experience. It also helps show that you sincerely have passion for what you do, which can help get into an entry-level job.
How many mystery writers does it take to screw in a light bulb?
Two. One to screw it almost all the way in, and the other to give it a surprising twist at the end.
Have to agree with Firble on this. I have conducted job interviews with a great many applicants and look for specific things and ignore others. This would be something I would ignore unless the applicant made a big deal out of it and then I would begin to ignore the applicant. Now if the applicant was the guild leader of, say, Premonition or VODKA or one of the other top 10 guilds in the world, I might reconsider. Those positions are like real jobs, but this assumes I know what this is. 99.9% of all people only know WoW from Mr T and he is not a good role model.
If someone was to ask me "I am the guild leader of a successful guild, should I put this on my resume?", I would say only in the section of "other activities and hobbies" and only if this was an information systems or creative type position.
I followed up with my friend about his sons application and it was for college, not a job. I think it is acceptable to put leading a guild in a college application. In retrospec, if this is your very first job and you have no job history, then it might also be acceptable.
Posts: 2389 Location: Little Rock, AR Joined: 11.09.07
I put my leadership of this guild in my resume, but not in a very important section. Maybe that's why I can't find a job though? Eh? (To be fair, I've given up for the time being and just generating a bit of cash through this part-time job and plan on going back to college next semester.)
On the resume I describe what all it entails to be a guild leader so it doesn't seem just like "lol i spend all my time playing video gamez!" The last great interview I had, where I thought I had the job because they spent hours with me showing me around the place, was with Lockheed Martin at the Air Force Base. One of the guys that interviewed me noticed I played WoW and we talked about that for a while, he knew what it meant to be in a guild. But did his other coworkers? I dunno. I don't think THAT attributed to me not getting the job -- I think it had to do more with the lack of experience in general, there was a question where I stumbled answering where someone asked me what I had been doing for the years I was out of college. That's the one question that afterward I wanted to say different answers to.
Posts: 1138 Location: The Freakin' Interwebs. Joined: 12.09.07
java wrote:
In retrospec, if this is your very first job and you have no job history, then it might also be acceptable.
Yeah, that's what I was talking about.
Alamexia wrote:
On the resume I describe what all it entails to be a guild leader so it doesn't seem just like "lol i spend all my time playing video gamez!"
I'm one of those guys who doesn't even like to put what exactly I did on each job, other than the job title. I like to put "developed such and such a skill" or whatever. I figure the guy reading my resume doesn't care that I spent a lot of the time I spent working at a fab shop measuring and weighing stainless steel fiber, but he might care that I gained experience doing stuff that needed a high degree of precision and overseeing co-workers.
I've never really been on the other end of a job interview though, so Java might have more insight about that.
How many mystery writers does it take to screw in a light bulb?
Two. One to screw it almost all the way in, and the other to give it a surprising twist at the end.
Yeah I'm the same Xopher. Actually when I did include my job duties from when I worked in a fab shop, it usually bit me in the ass when I was trying for a career change. Now I just find it more useful for myself, as well as future employers, to know the that I was in a leadership position, did R&D work on new equipment, programmed arc controllers and such, have LEAN business and Green Belt training... to name a few things. Adding things like welding and metal finishing just ended up hurting me, unless I was pursuing jobs in those fields (which I desperately tried to break the cycle of for about 4 years). Basically anything I've learned from a job that's universal, I include in my resumes.
I'm not sure if I'd ever even include my current second job at UPS on future resumes though. It's a strong, recognizable company to have on a resume, but I haven't learned anything there other than me being way more out of shape than I thought I was. It's just a unloading position that I took to make some extra money before I start school.
I led a very successful S.O.C.O.M. (in the top 500 on a match tracking site called gamebattles, which was pretty much THE offical ladder site since the in game one was completely broken) clan from about age 19-21 and I'd never thought about including it on a resume. I guess some of the leadership and organization skills I developed from that, and even being part of Bloodforged leadership, has helped me at past and present jobs. I still doubt I'd ever include it.
I'll ask my boss what he would have thought of my resume if I had put something like that on it, tomorrow.
Author
RE: "I learned everything from Warcraft"
Posted on Jul 21, 2010 at 2:50 am | Edited by Gopher on Jul 21, 2010 at 2:50 am
On the subject of job hunting, application and interview - always go with strengths. Weaknesses really don't matter unless they are overwelming, like you continuously fart or insist on wearing tank tops or sleeveless shirts everywhere. For example, I always try to find an opening to talk about how I have organized and lead many group hiking, camping and canoeing trips. I think I'm pretty good at it and this may not 100% relate to a job but it shows I have some strengths. If you were an athlete of some skill, particularly baseball, that is big. I've known guys to get hired purely on their skill on crushing a softball. They were not great worklers but the company loved them on their softball team. Great penmanship and handwriting are becoming lost skills. If you have beautiful handwriting always correspond in letters. People really appreciate that. My wife has the most wonderful handwriting and has gotten jobs singularly on that skill.
Remember, no one has to know that you were fired from your last three jobs because you believed the workday should start at 11AM and your former employers who mistaken thought it was 8AM can't say anything about why you left. Most interviewers expect that most applicants are qualified for the job and they are looking for the one reason to hire them. Our job is to find that one thing, and if leading a guild is the best thing you have ever done, then find an opening to talk about that.
Okay, since you are giving job hunting advice, riddle me this: What do you put on your application if the place you worked previously is no longer around due to being bought out (and you didn't work for the company that bought them out because you received a severance package from the original employer), AND your former boss is deceased, so you have no business reference to even say what kind of worker you were, AND you don't even remember your former pay, much of your old job description, etc.? And this all took place 11 years ago and you haven't worked since because you've been a stay-at-home-mom? If I put nothing, I look inexperienced, if I put half-assed information I feel like I look like I'm full of crap or worse. Can you even put that you left the workforce to raise a family, or is that not advised?
Thanks, Java's Job Hunting Tips!
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read". -- Groucho Marx
Riley wrote:
Okay, since you are giving job hunting advice, riddle me this: What do you put on your application if the place you worked previously is no longer around due to being bought out (and you didn't work for the company that bought them out because you received a severance package from the original employer), AND your former boss is deceased, so you have no business reference to even say what kind of worker you were, AND you don't even remember your former pay, much of your old job description, etc.? And this all took place 11 years ago and you haven't worked since because you've been a stay-at-home-mom? If I put nothing, I look inexperienced, if I put half-assed information I feel like I look like I'm full of crap or worse. Can you even put that you left the workforce to raise a family, or is that not advised?
Thanks, Java's Job Hunting Tips!
You absolutely say you left the workforce to be a stay at home mom. Honesty is always best. List the jobs you had and what you did as you remember, even though they no longer exist and the last entry will be a date that you left to stay home raising the family. Don't worry too much about references, former employers can't directly say anything that might prevent someone from getting a job. No one ever calls back and about all that can be said is "so and so worked here from this date to that date". Anything beyond that is lawsuit territory. Tell potential employers what you want to do and what qualities you bring. I want my staff to be reliable, honest and open. All employers want that. Those skills can't be trained, all else can be. Two other important skills are to learn how to take direction and how to ask for help. Taking direction is critical to success. Just look a the guild, we wouldn't be able to succeed without enough players taking direction even though Chuck drones on for 20 minutes. We have a 15 minute rule in my work group - you beat your head against the wall for 15 minutes and then ask someone for help. You can't imagine how many ppl can't learn these two things and they are constantly frustrated. I'm ranting now and need to stop!
Author
RE: "I learned everything from Warcraft"
Posted on Jul 21, 2010 at 7:40 pm | Edited by Gopher on Jul 21, 2010 at 7:47 pm
Posts: 1138 Location: The Freakin' Interwebs. Joined: 12.09.07
Java, I don't know if your state has some weird laws or something, but in Texas it's definitely okay for a former employer reference to say pretty much anything they want as long as it's both true and job-related. Seems like laws to the contrary would make references completely pointless.
Edit: Careless wording on my part. The former employer is only supposed to answer questions that are asked and give facts, not opinions. Basically, it's a lot like testifying in court. Also, IANAL.
How many mystery writers does it take to screw in a light bulb?
Two. One to screw it almost all the way in, and the other to give it a surprising twist at the end.
Gopher wrote:
Java, I don't know if your state has some weird laws or something, but in Texas it's definitely okay for a former employer reference to say pretty much anything they want as long as it's both true and job-related. Seems like laws to the contrary would make references completely pointless.
Edit: Careless wording on my part. The former employer is only supposed to answer questions that are asked and give facts, not opinions. Basically, it's a lot like testifying in court. Also, IANAL.
Correct! Sure, the former employer can say anything but the litigious society has caused such requests to be watered down to basic facts. My company has lay-offs every year and some of the people ask if it's ok for me to be a reference. I say sure but they should remember the company rules that all such requests have to go through HR department, so putting me as a reference doesn't help too much.
On the other hand, there are other kinds of applications were personal references are important like school and volunteer work (Peace Corps, Vista, Missionary work - these are still viable alternatives to "work".
It just that workplace reference importance has diminished greatly in the past 20 years. I can't remember the last time I saw a resume with a references section.
Author
RE: "I learned everything from Warcraft"
Posted on Jul 22, 2010 at 10:06 am | Edited by Guran on Jul 22, 2010 at 10:17 am
My reference section contains people I've worked with but not at any previous jobs actually include in my work history. Also, they are all friends. That said, I've NEVER had any references contacted at any job I've had in the last 8 years and have only had one company contact me as reference from someone else and it was some kid (not really a kid but I call everyone younger than me "kid" that moved on from the company I work at.
Also as it is where Java works, every company I've worked at wants the references put through HR but fuck that. I just give them my home or work cell number because HR departments are usually a detached section of a company that generally don't work directly with any other part of companies. So in my opinion they have no right to answer questions about former employees since they probably never worked with them. Also if it's a layoff situation, I'd rather give someone one a stellar review as a reference and get them another job especially in our current economic situation.
Also my boss said that putting guild leadership on a resume wouldn't have had real effect had I included it. He plays WoW and is in a raiding guild so he understands the level of organization it takes to be successful and said it would have been a good talking point during the interview but his decision wouldn't have changed in a positive or negative direction because of it.
Posts: 1138 Location: The Freakin' Interwebs. Joined: 12.09.07
Like Java's already talked about, I don't put references on my resume at all. I just bring a list with me if I get an interview. It's my understanding that employers won't call them until after the interview, anyway, since it's a lot of trouble to call people who may or may not answer, then leave a message and wait for a callback.
I've never had an interviewer refuse to take my list of references when offered, but that doesn't mean they've ever used them, either.
How many mystery writers does it take to screw in a light bulb?
Two. One to screw it almost all the way in, and the other to give it a surprising twist at the end.
Generally I bring 2 copies of my resume to interviews and if I'm e-mailed an official application for employment then that as well (obviously)... It has been my experience that during interviews that involve more than one interviewer, they tend to only bring one copy for whatever reason. So I have extras ready to go if they are needed. Also if my current resume may be different than the one I had sent them it makes sure everyone is on the same page. For example, I just got a call last week about a job I was interested in 2 years ago. I have no intentions on taking the job, or even interviewing for it but bringing an updated resume would probably been appreciated (of course I would have also just e-mailed them one ahead of time as well).
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